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Internet Relay Chats/March 19, 2017

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Wikimedia India

Date and Time
March 19, 2017, 09:00 PM - 10:30 PM (IST)

How to connect ?
IRC Channel at #wikimedia-in connect

WMIN Executive Committee Elections 2016.


For potential candidates and voters to clarify election rules and procedures with Election Committee and current EC regarding WMIN Executive Committee Elections 2015.

Please note that the IRC session will be logged for documentation purpose. Channel archives are available here.

[20:56] == yohannvt [31cce24d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has joined #wikimedia-in

[20:56] <abhinav619> hi yohann

[20:58] <yohannvt> Hi abhinav

[20:58] <yohannvt> Nice of you to join.. :)

[21:01] <yohannvt> @Shanmugamp7 Will i get todays IRC discussion here..

[21:01] == Arunram [dfe383c3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has joined #wikimedia-in

[21:02] <Arunram> Hello

[21:02] <yohannvt> Hi Arun..

[21:02] <Arunram> Hi yohann

[21:03] <yohannvt> Lets wait for sometime & check whether anyone else will join..

[21:03] <abhinav619> I hope I can, because I am at present not a member of WMIN

[21:03] == Krishna [af65631a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has joined #wikimedia-in

[21:04] == Bodhisattwa [2a6eac58@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has joined #wikimedia-in

[21:04] == Arunram_ [dfe383c3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has joined #wikimedia-in

[21:05] <Arunram_> Hello

[21:05] <yohannvt> H bodhi

[21:05] <yohannvt> *Hi Bodhi

[21:05] <Bodhisattwa> Hi

[21:05] == csyogi [~Thunderbi@] has joined #wikimedia-in

[21:06] <yohannvt> Hi Yogesh

[21:06] <abhinav619> Yohann, I have asked something

[21:06] <abhinav619> check above

[21:07] == Arunram [dfe383c3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]

[21:07] == yogisri [~yogisri@] has joined #wikimedia-in

[21:08] <yohannvt> @abhinav can you please repeat your question.. i didnt understand it

[21:08] == yogisri [~yogisri@] has quit [Client Quit]

[21:08] == Arunram [dfe383c3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has joined #wikimedia-in

[21:08] <abhinav619> you have addressed in the mail that it is only for members

[21:08] <abhinav619> so, can I attend?

[21:09] <yannf> can anyone here create an account on the wiki?

[21:09] <yohannvt> It is for members & well wishers of WMIN..

[21:09] == _lkpx [73bb334e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has joined #wikimedia-in

[21:09] <yohannvt> im sorry, i must have forgotted to mention it...

[21:09] == yogisri [~yogisri@] has joined #wikimedia-in

[21:10] == imrWIKI [31230702@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has joined #wikimedia-in

[21:10] <yannf> yohannvt, of course, request from User:Acagastya

[21:10] <Arunram> ...

[21:10] <imrWIKI> Hello ,I'm first time chat on IRC

[21:10] == yogisri [~yogisri@] has quit [Client Quit]

[21:11] <csyogi> yohannvt: Hi

[21:11] == imrWIKI [31230702@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has quit [Client Quit]

[21:11] <Arunram> Who is driving the chat?

[21:11] == Arunram_ [dfe383c3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]

[21:12] <Arunram> Hello

[21:12] <yohannvt> Arunram:This chat is facilitated by csyogi who is part of the Election COmmittee

[21:12] <yohannvt> csyogi was also part of the ELection committee in 2015

[21:12] <Arunram> OK then shoukd he not be saying something

[21:13] <Arunram> To get the chat moving...

[21:13] <yohannvt> csyogi has joined & left a couple of times.. it looks like he is facing network issues...

[21:13] <yohannvt> we can wait till he gets a stable network conection..

[21:13] <Arunram> Can someone else take over

[21:14] <Krishna> OK Guys, I am putting forward that same question that I did on the elections talk page.

[21:14] <Krishna> Till today, I have seen no nominations. The last date is 24th of this month. What is the case if there aren't enough nomination within the stipulated limit?

[21:14] == wrick [b641d946@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has joined #wikimedia-in

[21:14] == csyogi [~Thunderbi@] has quit [Quit: csyogi]

[21:14] <Arunram> ...

[21:14] <yohannvt> I can take over till the time csyogi joins back

[21:15] <Arunram> How many of the current office bearers stay back

[21:15] <wrick> Hello! This is User:Mouryan

[21:15] <Arunram> And who are they

[21:15] <Arunram> How many positions are being open

[21:15] <yohannvt> To answer the question, 5 EC members were elected in 2015

[21:15] <yohannvt> srry, 6 members were elected in 2015

[21:16] <yohannvt> Abhiraj Suryawanshi resigned in January 2016

[21:16] <Arunram> What is the status of the chapter currently.. Open statutory and compliance issues

[21:16] == Bodhisattwa [2a6eac58@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]

[21:16] <yohannvt> so in 2016 election there were 2 vacancies

[21:16] <Arunram> Also finance related

[21:16] <Arunram> ...

[21:17] <yohannvt> Abhinav Srivastava & Nopur raval got elected in 2016

[21:17] <yohannvt> but Nopur & Abhinav both resigned..

[21:17] <yohannvt> So currently all 7 seats will be going for election

[21:17] <Arunram> That is a sad state of affairs for the chapter

[21:18] <yohannvt> Regarding current financial situation of WMIN, w eare unalbe to get funds from WMF due to expiry of FCRA license

[21:18] <Arunram> As founding members we had envisioned a EC that always retained some experience....

[21:18] <Arunram> This status is frankly quite unacceptable and deplorable

[21:18] <abhinav619> What is the progress in regard to FCRA license

[21:19] <Arunram> Why cant some of the EC members continue?

[21:19] <abhinav619> and has Ministry of Home Affairs being replied

[21:19] <Arunram> Hoe does the current EC expect continuity

[21:19] <yohannvt> Once this elections are done & AGM is completed , WMIN will be planning to apply for new FCRA license

[21:20] <yohannvt> Home ministry has replied to submit all documents updated till 2016 financial audit report..

[21:20] <Arunram> Hmm

[21:20] <yohannvt> so we cant apply for new FCRA license till we finish this elections & AGM

[21:21] <Arunram> Why can't some of the current members continue?

[21:21] == Siri_ [9d3102c5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has joined #wikimedia-in

[21:21] <abhinav619> ok

[21:21] <yohannvt> Arunram, since our term has expired, we cant extend our term

[21:21] <Arunram> Hoe else will there be continuity... How will new members cleanup the mess

[21:21] <yohannvt> since it will be in contradiction to the MoA

[21:21] <Arunram> Why did the current EC let it come to this...

[21:22] <Arunram> Why did we not replace the last 2 EC members who quit

[21:22] <yohannvt> We had insisted EC members who got elected in 2016 to continue for the continuity of the chapter, but due to their personal reasons , they had to quit

[21:22] <Arunram> Continuity is incredibly important for any organisation

[21:23] <yohannvt> Arunram we have co-opted Santosh shingare from bangalore for now

[21:24] <yohannvt> Yes, we agree that continuity is very important.. SO some of the EC members have agreed to continue to help the new EC in their personal capacity

[21:24] <Arunram> And the current EC has a responsibility to ensure continuity and handover of EC so as to ensure things can be carried out

[21:24] <Arunram> The whole EC bailing out is not a good practise

[21:24] <abhinav619> Why are other EC members not attending the IRC

[21:24] <Arunram> I have no idea

[21:25] == pavanaja [~Pavanaja@2405:204:5403:acf3:9503:e49c:cc78:7c90] has joined #wikimedia-in

[21:25] <abhinav619> @Arunram....I am sorry to interfere but interrogating Yohann...wont help...he is the sole EC member dragging the chapter....the commitment of others could be observed but their absence

[21:25] == Satdeep [a99584c2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has joined #wikimedia-in

[21:26] <Arunram> Can the current EC share a state of the chapter report for potential candidates to know the status of various things. A clean and open disclosure by the EC

[21:26] <yohannvt> So the current EC is fully focussed to hep the new EC to continue continuity

[21:26] == Bodhisattwa [2a6eac58@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has joined #wikimedia-in

[21:26] <Arunram> ...

[21:26] <abhinav619> Its better...that there is a policy (at least for new members to be elected is in place) so that negligence of duty cannot happen

[21:27] <abhinav619> WMIN IRC and EC is not here

[21:27] <yohannvt> ArunRam We have been updating the community on the various difficulties that the chapter is facing

[21:27] <abhinav619> what is this?

[21:27] <Krishna> Yohann, sorry for pulling over, can you once again look over to my question, currently I see that there are no nominations, what is the case if there aren't enough candidates in the pool?

[21:27] <yohannvt> Our FCRA is a well known issue to the community

[21:28] <Arunram> You guys always had the option to seek advise from past members but I don't think that was done seriously

[21:28] <Arunram> Good question Krishna

[21:29] <yohannvt> Krishna.. the Election committee will be taking a call on whether to extend the date for nominations in case there is a less no. of candidates..

[21:29] <Arunram> Hmmm

[21:30] <yohannvt> Since this is a unique situation where all 7 seats are vacant.. The election committee has decided to take a call on extending the date..

[21:30] <Arunram> Sad state of affairs

[21:30] <yohannvt> in case a minimum no. of nominations dont come up..

[21:30] == Bodhisattwa_ [2a6eac58@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has joined #wikimedia-in

[21:30] == dhiruraghuvanshi [312c33ca@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has joined #wikimedia-in

[21:30] <Arunram> To what date

[21:30] <Krishna> if so, will the date of the elections also be postponed?

[21:31] == Bodhisattwa [2a6eac58@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]

[21:31] <yohannvt> yes, in case nomination dates are postponed, elections will also be postponed

[21:31] <yohannvt> since the electorates will require a minimum no. of days for them to recieve tha ballots & send them back with their votes

[21:32] <Arunram> How do the EC members ensure that they will complete all necessary actions and compliance matters before they bail out.

[21:32] <Krishna> OK Thanks

[21:32] <Arunram> How is this being ensured?

[21:32] <Krishna> Apart from elections, I an issue to be discussed

[21:32] <Krishna> I have an issue**, sorry for the typo

[21:33] <Arunram> Who outside the EC is helping validate that EC members are fulfilling the obligations for their term and that there are no loose ends

[21:33] <yohannvt> As i told that the current EC will ensure that they will guide the new EC till they get a new FCRA license

[21:33] <Arunram> Ya hand the issue is not guidance but fulfillment of obligations of the term.... Reporting, compliance, financial and statutory

[21:34] <Arunram> *Yohann

[21:34] <yohannvt> we have formed an advisory committee to help us whenever we require their advice..

[21:34] <yohannvt>

[21:34] <Arunram> Can that committee review and report on my query

[21:34] <Arunram> It is absolutely imperative it is done

[21:35] == Bodhisattwa_ [2a6eac58@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]

[21:35] <Arunram> And soon within a week

[21:35] <Krishna> Actually as we can see that currently there are just 189 eligible voters. I strongly believe that this count is far low from active editors we have from India. We must take steps to encourage the Indian editors to register with the chapter

[21:36] <yohannvt> yes, i think the committee can give a report on your query ArunRam

[21:36] <Arunram> Krishna... Not everyone who is a member needs to be an editor and not every editor needs to be member of chapter...

[21:36] <Arunram> The chapter goes beyond matters related to editing and editors along by construct

[21:37] <Arunram> Though it is good to have more editors roped in as members

[21:37] <Arunram> ...

[21:37] == abhinav619 [67469929@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has quit [Quit: Page closed]

[21:37] <Arunram> Yohann can you respond to my comment

[21:37] <Arunram> And can you please provide assurances

[21:37] <Krishna> Yeah I know that, the chapter would be benefited if there are more members. Not many editors know about the chapter. if we can let them know they may be intrested

[21:38] <yohannvt> ArunRam , havent i repleid to all your queries.. in case i have missed any, can yu please repeat it

[21:38] <Arunram> Agree

[21:38] <Krishna> Yohann, what is your comment on this?

[21:38] <Krishna> Thanks Arun.

[21:39] <yohannvt> Krishna, i agree with what arun has said..

[21:39] <Arunram> OK if the committee can give a report on the state of the chapter... Open issues, finances, compliance, statutory obligation status which is reviewed and audited by the advisory board in a week... It woukd help

[21:40] <yohannvt> some editors prefer to remain active online, but for those who want to be active offline, they can very well be members of WMIN

[21:40] <yohannvt> Yes, i will reach out to members of Advisory committee to make a brief report on this..

[21:41] <Arunram> Had the chapter been attending the chapters conference at Berlin regularly

[21:41] <Arunram> Not a brief report Yohann... A detailed one...

[21:41] == DrAbhijeetSafai [6733993a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has joined #wikimedia-in

[21:41] <Arunram> The devil is in the details :-)

[21:41] <Krishna> Yeah that is the case, I am saying not many of the editors know about WMIN Chapter. May if could inform the local language communities, they spread it. Interested editors will obviously pool in

[21:41] <DrAbhijeetSafai> I am extremely sorry to join late.

[21:41] <yohannvt> we had attended last chapters conference in 2015

[21:42] == Siri_ [9d3102c5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]

[21:42] <Arunram> What about 2016 and 2017

[21:42] <yohannvt> but since we had a delay in submitting Financial report & Activity report, we couldnt attend in 2016

[21:42] <Arunram> Aaah

[21:42] <Arunram> So we are not a chapter of good standing now.. M

[21:42] <Arunram> ?

[21:43] <Arunram> Had that since been submitted?

[21:43] <Arunram> *has

[21:43] <yohannvt> We had a delay in submitting 2015 audit reports, but it is now updated..

[21:44] <yohannvt> 2016 can be updated once we finsih this AGM

[21:44] <Arunram> What about 2016

[21:44] <Arunram> We are in 2017 aren't we?

[21:44] <Arunram> So what is holding up the EC

[21:45] <Arunram> ...

[21:45] <yohannvt> ArunRam since this is elections 2016 , AGM report will be submitted once this is done

[21:45] <Arunram> Is it just Krishna and I

[21:46] <Arunram> No one else here

[21:46] <Arunram> ...

[21:46] <yohannvt> We had a delay in conducting this AGM since our accounts were frozen since it was a savings account..

[21:46] <yohannvt> we could pay our financial auditor

[21:46] <Arunram> Hmm

[21:47] <yohannvt> our accounts were unfrozen only in Novmeber 2016, that is when we could pay our auditor, which delayed everything..

[21:47] <Arunram> A full and complete disclosure is needed from the EC members

[21:47] <Krishna> Arun I think the members like others and us are volunteers, and they do have their own real life constraints get on. So as still we're in developing stage, I think time is required

[21:47] <yohannvt> SBIbank where our account was were completely unco-operative due to which there was such a delay

[21:48] <Arunram> Hmm

[21:48] <yohannvt> again.. the advisory committee is fully aware of our situation..

[21:48] <Krishna> Also FARC issue has created fair amount of chaos among the chapter. Chaos in the sense, delays as in like conducting basic requirements like AGMs etc.

[21:49] <Arunram> ...

[21:49] <Arunram> OK we will wait for the report in a week

[21:49] <Arunram> Can we do a followup call next monday

[21:50] <Arunram> I meant irc chat

[21:50] <yohannvt> Also, with a crackdow on NGOs on the FCRA issues , it has bogged us down

[21:51] == Arunram_ [dfe383c3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has joined #wikimedia-in

[21:51] <Arunram_> Hello

[21:51] <Arunram_> Sorry for dropped

[21:51] <Arunram_> Oops got

[21:52] <Arunram_> ...

[21:52] <yohannvt> With 20,000 FCRA licenses cancelled in Dec 2016.. It is not helping us

[21:53] <Arunram_> OK is the chat done?

[21:53] <Arunram_> I have to get off...

[21:54] <Arunram_> I presume the chat transcript will be published

[21:54] <yohannvt> IRC is up till 10:30.. in case someone land up..

[21:54] <yohannvt> yes, IRC chat will be published..

[21:54] <yohannvt> as it always happens

[21:54] <DrAbhijeetSafai> I just had to share that this FCRA can be very frustrating ... (not related to this but i would like to share my experience)

[21:54] == Arunram [dfe383c3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]

[21:55] <Arunram_> Ok I am logging off Yohann.... Thanks

[21:55] <DrAbhijeetSafai> One of my cousins transferred amount equal to some 8-9K from Switzerland in 2012 I guess to Umarkhed

[21:56] <DrAbhijeetSafai> And the person never got the amount .....

[21:56] <DrAbhijeetSafai> I went to ombuds officer and even I received mails and calls from reserve bank of India but it did not work out

[21:57] <DrAbhijeetSafai> I tried to peruse it a lot but somehow I was not successful in transferring the funds .... the reason was the NGO was not registered under FCRA

[21:57] <Krishna> Yohann and Safair sir, I have a line of question for you. What are the odds for us to get the FCRA? What the difficulties we don't get one, in case? Fortunately, if we're done with all the documents, how long will it take for the application to be processed?

[21:58] <DrAbhijeetSafai> So, in the end I left it and closed the complaint but I can imagine how frustrating it can be specially if the person is not from commerce background or have less knowledge about bank procedures

[21:59] <DrAbhijeetSafai> I do not have idea about this.

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[22:02] <Krishna> Yohann, can you pull back to my questions?

[22:03] <yohannvt> Krishna, can you repeat your question..

[22:03] <yohannvt> in all the above talk, i think i missed your question

[22:03] <Krishna> What are the odds for us to get the FCRA? What the difficulties we don't get one, in case? Fortunately, if we're done with all the documents, how long will it take for the application to be processed?

[22:06] <yohannvt> So, to apply for FCRA, we need to be up to date on our AGM & financial audit

[22:07] <yohannvt> once we finish these elections, we can apply for FCRA..

[22:07] <yohannvt> to apply for FCRA & get approval it can take anywhere between 3-6 months

[22:08] <yohannvt> now, since this is apporved by Ministry of Home affairs, we dont know for sure how long will it take..

[22:08] <yohannvt> with all the red tapism & bueracracy in ministry of Home affairs

[22:10] <Krishna> so what about the chapter's activities till them

[22:10] <Krishna> then**

[22:11] <yohannvt> till then we can support community with zero budget activities

[22:12] <yohannvt> we have helped editors to apply for grant

[22:12] <yohannvt> we have helped the organizing team of WCI ..

[22:12] <yohannvt> & we can coordinate & plan online activities & edit-athons..

[22:13] <Krishna> So can't we apply for the project grant

[22:13] <Krishna> from Wikimedia, do that also need FARC

[22:13] <yohannvt> we have done many activites without funds..

[22:14] <yohannvt> check our activities.. till now in our reports..

[22:14] <yohannvt>

[22:15] <yohannvt> We plan to publish our quartely report for 2017 by March 31st..

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[22:17] <Krishna> do we need FRCA for APG

[22:18] == abhinav619 [67469929@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has joined #wikimedia-in

[22:18] <yohannvt> yes krishna, we do..

[22:19] <yohannvt> any funds we get from WMF, for that we need FCRA license

[22:19] <Krishna> then what about the rapid grants, travel and participation grants that individuals get?

[22:20] <yohannvt> individually, i can get funds from WMF,,

[22:20] <yohannvt> but in chapter accounts we cant get funds from WMF

[22:21] <Krishna> Oh, I get it now

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[22:22] <yohannvt> One ray of hope is that once we get the new FCRA license, it will be a permanent one, unlike the previous FCRA license we had, which was a temporary one

[22:22] == abhinav619 [67469929@gateway/web/freenode/ip.] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]

[22:23] <yohannvt> so no renewing of license once we get the new FRCA license

[22:23] <Krishna> Let us hope for the best

[22:23] <Krishna> So Yohann, any ideas on letting the editors know about the chapters

[22:24] <Krishna> I suggest to post messages on local language Village pumps, so that we may be able to rope in some

[22:24] <yohannvt> yes, that is a good idea

[22:25] <Krishna> Good then, we'll work on this

[22:26] <Krishna> I think we're closing in. It is almost 10:30 pm

[22:26] <yohannvt> We have another 4 minutes of the IRC.. any other doubts??

[22:27] <Krishna> nothing more for now. Many thanks for your response.

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[22:31] <Krishna> I think its time to end the IRC, Good night everyone.

[22:31] <yohannvt> Yes, thank you every one for joining..

[22:31] <DrAbhijeetSafai> Good night!

[22:31] <yohannvt> Good night..

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